Vampyres.co.uk

The Wiccan Crede, whcih forms the core of Wiccan belief has always fascinated me. It seem as first sight to be a very loose and free basis for any religion allowinf you complete freedom to do more or less anything you like.....but is it.

Do what thou wilt an it hurt none

In other words you can do anything you like provided that you dont hurt anyone.

The quandry comes in the question..how far do you take it? Think about it carefully, if you have to consider before taking any action whether it were likely to hurt someone how easy would it be to make any decision to do anythign at all.

Almost any action is potentially capable of hurting others in some way so how far do you go...is it ok if you only hurt them a little, if you only hurt their feelings and not their physical body, if you didnt mean to hurt them? And does the action have to be certain to hurt, or could possible hurt or is likely to hurt or might hurt?

What if you are hurting them for their own good...to teach them a lesson for example, or if it is necessary to hurt one person to stop them hurting another or themselves?

I have been told that I have a tendency to overthink things and that may be true of this but it has fascinated me hoe lightly the Wiccans I know treat this subject, most of them have never really looked any further than the obvious meaning and have never really THOUGHT about it.

So what are your thoughts on this subject?

Well the first thought to spring to my mind is how awful a person would have to be to 'hurt someone to teach them a lesson'. I am sorry but I cannot make that idea sit right with me.
I think for me to follow that crede I would have to be aware that no action I took could be actively hurtful to another, unless of course it had to be in order to protect a third person from even greater harm.
So, I not only would not shoot someone, I also would not
a/ Sell anyone a gun.
b/ Make any kind of weapon designed to shoot anyone.
c/ Make improvements to an already existing weapon in order that it may hurt more people because of my work.
But I would not hold myself responsible if my actions or non actions indirectly hurt someone.
I would not therefore feel any responsibility if the gun I did not buy was bought by someone else, who used it to shoot someone.
I would not feel responsible if by parking next to the supermarket it meant another person parked farther away and the extra effort to walk to the shop brought on a heart attack. I would have no way of knowing these things would happen and so no control over them.
If you followed this crede too closely you would probably never even leave the house, and even then it is possible to take this too far. Say if by staying in you watch more TV and therefore use more electricity. This brings about a need for the chopping down of more trees to provide the fuel for the power stations. Now without the trees to hold the mud on the banks up, next time it rains there is a flood and someone is drowned. If you take it to it's farthest extent it would be partially my fault for staying in and watching TV.
I do the very best I can do, I take responsibility for my own actions and their resultant effects. But nothing more, as I cannot hold myself responsible for how others, the gods, the universe or anything, turns what I do to suit themselves.
Good post though.
Can't wait to see what others do with it.

Unfortunatly all mothers are awful people Camille, it breaks my heart sometimes when I have to make my little one cry by saying no but if I dont then he would just grow up to be spoiled and wild and selfish. (No...not like his mother Hollow Man ) I was not suggesting physical harm here but exactly what you were talking about in your post.

It has often occured to me that if we obeyed the crede to its letter we would just end up going mad because it would be wholly impossible at a micro level. (I hope I have not got that the wrong way around).

I think that your approach hits the nail on the head and that at the end of the day it comes down to responsibility. Taking responsibility for your own actions and letting other bear the responsibility for theirs.

My interpretation is not quite as deep as that. I view it as, in your every endeavor do not intentionally commit any act that would cause harm to another, physically or emotionally. Don't commit infidelity because it is hurtful. Don't abuse someone because it causes emotional and physical harm. In your magick do not do something that will intentionally harm another.

Yes, that is much how I view it too Arwen.
And I think most people would have to agree that taken in moderation and controlled by a good deal of common sense the Wiccan Rede would bear following by people in general, not just Wiccans.

By the way, welcome back, it's good to see you on the forum again.
C.T.M.

Thank you! I've been very busy, but I also want to thank Chakira for reminding me.

i think the wiccan crede isnt just a way of guiding wiccans in ways to behave as it can be used by anyone in normaly life,
i see it as commonsense, like the commandments are to christians, these are morals that we should all be living by.
"do harm to none" - well that just the same as "love thy neighbough" or "tho shalt not kill" - its commonsense that we should all have to be good people.

however when magick is conserned, there comes a conflict of morals, like as chakira said, you may have to hurt someone in order to help them.
in instances like this i tend to think of it in ther terms of free will, i dont like to meddle in other people lives because it may trigger a chain of events.
although in some cases i can see why it may be hard to distance yourself from the other persons problem especialy if you are close to them, i wouldnt want to be in this situation myself

It's a horrid situation to be in Terri.
If you leave it when you could have helped them you feel guilty for not helping, and yet if you do help you are not allowing things to run their natural course, by interceding on their behalf, and you are left feeling guilty for interfering.
It's quite a dilemma.

C.T.M.

it really is, but you have to think of the what could happen because you interfeared, what if you made things worse. i tend to stay out that way i can do no harm or good and just be there for the person as a friend with chocolate

That sounds like an excellent philosophy...partocularly the chocolate.

Magical morality is the bane of my life. I very very rarely do spells because I can ALWAYS imagine ways in which they could go wrong and do harm rather than good. I therefore get myself all tied up in knots trying to find a water tight definition and almost invariably end up not doing the spell.

However, I have to say that I have also very very very rarely had a spell backfire on me or not work in the way I intended it.

Sigh